All Over Albany

Excellent use of the waterfront here. Outstanding mixed use facility that is going to add to the architectural history of Troy.

... said Ned on Apr 6, 2017 at 3:00 PM | link

I suspect that a familiar pattern will play out in these comments, and I want to be the first to say yes, I actually would prefer a hole in the ground.

... said Art Vandelay on Apr 6, 2017 at 3:04 PM | link

My first reaction upon seeing the renderings was "ugh; another bland box, forced into a space at the lowest dollar." Looking at it more, however, I can see some merits - a decent amount of glass at street level, some "texture" to the building on the corner, good flow down from the street to river, for example. But you can't miss the big blank walls above street level, and the huge windowless walls facing the river. How about some more creativity on those facades, and maybe some kind of elevated retail/restaurant wrapping around to the riverside somewhere? Can anything be done to avoid closing off the river views - other cities are tearing down parking lots that take up valuable waterfront property, while we're erecting a new one? It'll be good to fill the hole in downtown Troy... hopefully with a structure that's a welcome part of the neighborhood, not "ugh!"

... said b movie on Apr 6, 2017 at 3:28 PM | link

Is it just me, or 4th picture has sun shining from the north?

... said Mike on Apr 6, 2017 at 3:30 PM | link

Nope. It's too big city for Troy. It's not in scale with the surrounding buildings, and it's blocking the access to the river. The back looks like the same seedy "don't look back here" barren aesthetic we have there now.

... said Alli Normal on Apr 6, 2017 at 3:42 PM | link

I want to see a LEED AP design or at least incorporate solar.
In addition, the back that faces the river should incorporate some architectural detail and interest. Rather than have a giant brick or cement wall blocking the view of the downtown from 787 and the river.

... said J on Apr 6, 2017 at 3:48 PM | link

Sweet. Let's get it done.

... said ace on Apr 6, 2017 at 4:11 PM | link

There aren't many ways to build something on a waterfront with zero windows facing the water, but by golly Troy has found one!

... said -m on Apr 6, 2017 at 5:02 PM | link

Not to shabby is the first thing that comes to my mind. I do wish they could do something with those large flat walls on the side and back... maybe a mural of some sort? a second home for TroyBot? something else? :) I'm intrigued.

... said Andy K on Apr 6, 2017 at 5:03 PM | link

Omg.....can the brutalist city hall be rebuilt??? What is wrong with these people???? Would be great development in Phoenix Arizona or vegas!

... said BS on Apr 6, 2017 at 6:22 PM | link

While I think a theater in downtown Troy (I'm thinking something like The Spectrum in Albany) would be great this proposal places a giant unremarkable box that looks like it belongs in a mall in the heart of Victorian downtown Troy while simultaneously, and perhaps more importantly, blocking access and view to, and of, the beautiful Hudson River and surrounding valley. This primarily windowless (by necessity) box is entirely out of place and time and counter to the goal of connecting downtown to the river and natural wonder we love and respect. In short this proposal is a giant opportunity for Troy squandered.

... said Jojo's Chillin on Apr 6, 2017 at 7:38 PM | link

Ugh. Bonacio is incapable of building anything complementary to the style, size, and massing of existing architecture. They've turned Saratoga into a Disney World architectural comedy of errors to the point that I'd rather go to the fake Saratoga in Disney World than look at those faux brick laminated Bonacio buildings off Broadway. Troy is in the middle of a community driven revival. They are breathing new life into these historic structures and encouraging a level of economic development the city has not seen in years. Building this suburban architectural reject in the heart of downtown will end that.

... said xl on Apr 6, 2017 at 10:01 PM | link

For those who keep commenting on the windowless walls- please remember this is a THEATER.

... said Eric Scheirer Stott on Apr 7, 2017 at 7:05 AM | link

So many critics of architecture. The building doesn't need to mimic the historic buildings--usually juxtaposition of more modern buildings with older architecture adds more interest. If the people of Troy keep voting things down it will dissuade developers from submitting plans in the future.

... said Jordan on Apr 7, 2017 at 8:54 AM | link

For those who keep commenting on the comments about windowless walls- please remember this is a RIVER FRONT SITE in the heart of troy that needs to be better utilized.

... said Adam Champagne on Apr 7, 2017 at 10:17 AM | link

There sure are a lot of "architecture lovers" in here, that probably have never been to the waterfront once, don't live on a waterfront facing property, probably don't even live in Troy, and don't understand economic development. The prevailing logic seems to be that "if it's an old city, everything in it needs to look old, mixing modern and historic doesn't work", I dunno seems to work pretty well in NYC to me. But then, I am the kind of person that can appreciate both the historic buildings in Albany, as well as the contrast that Brutalist Empire State Plaza brings. But the particular brand of people commenting on this seem largely to believe that anything remotely modern in a growing city with high tech growth is a sin.

... said KiriyaA on Apr 7, 2017 at 11:35 AM | link

I have a feeling that most people would be open to architecturally-modern construction at this site. The problem, is that as currently rendered, the project doesn't have a lick of architectural merit. I also think that people are more or less open to a movie theater, but there any number of parking lots in downtown troy where a good infill project (even if heinously designed) would probably be a net benefit.

... said Barry on Apr 7, 2017 at 12:08 PM | link

So... everyone take a reeeaaaaally deep breath. This is the phase of the development where Bonocio goes in front of the City Council to discuss the plans for the site to get municipal approval for the sale of the land aka the step after winning the RFP. At the meeting the architect said a lot was shown was negotiable... The development team would have probably been safer not providing the renderings, just the building footprint. There's so much heat on this development already that I actually give them credit for showing us a possible version of the theater.

There is a proposed sightline to the river in this project by way of the public staircase albeit not the one that people are clamoring for directly in line with Broadway. Can anyone tell me if there was a time other than when the original buildings were torn down to make room for a parking garage/city hall and when now, post city hall demolition that there was an actual view of the river in this spot? None of the other buildings on this stretch of River St allow you to see through them to the river- why should this one?

I like the theater idea, I like the staircase, the curved marquee has a kind of appeal... The rest of it is a little "Rivers Casino" for me but I trust that Bonocio is smart enough to have learned from the mistakes of other developers. And if he hasn't, I trust that the WCATS folks will be rattling their sabers for the next 2 years.

... said Cmaxby on Apr 7, 2017 at 12:30 PM | link

The street-facing sings look nice for a movie theater. And I have no objection for there being a theater in this space... but I agree with the general sentiment that having a massive windowless wall facing the river is pretty dumb. Why not scale back the number of screens slightly, and use some of the river-facing side to put in one or two restaurant spaces, complete with patio?

It's hard to say how they could pull this off without seeing floor plans, but I'd imagine it has to be possible as long as having the full eight screens is not the 'break even point' to building the facility. And if it is.... then this is probably not a good plan to begin with.

... said Paul on Apr 7, 2017 at 12:53 PM | link

Where to start? As a local to the Capital District, born 1970, I have seen a number of things "progress". I have studied Interior Design and now work in Landscape Design. I am someone who is aware of my surroundings and like to notice what works and what doesn't based on function and how the space makes me feel. I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said so far. Movie theater? Something like Spectrum would be more suited than a mall theater. The one in Saratoga is hideous and lacks character. On the water front? Why not maximize the lot for mixed uses incorporating the outdoors and view instead of mostly for a theater? Architecture? Most "builders" in our area lack design. What might look good for the next ten years won't necessarily age well. Take State St/Central Ave from The Crosstown to Fuller Rd. area and parts of Latham/Rt 9. Yuck. Awful time frame but was quick and cheap. How about the failed Canal Square behind Proctors? All those pop-up mini malls in Clifton Park? Is it required to have a nail salon in every one? I'm so tired of transient design. I'm not opposed to modern design but just not obnoxious, irrelevant, not-thought out design (and I realize not all of Frank Lloyd Wrights design were "functional" and that's where I disagree with ego). They need to stop designing with the paycheck in mind and look at how it will age with and develop the community. We don't need another Center City in Schenectady or Troy Atrium or State Museum. Just because they want to make it with big, fancy materials doesn't mean it will be successful. Looking back at the pics, it reminds me of the old facade of Mohawk Mall...where The Boston Store was. Who is bringing the ideas to the big construction companies? Is this what the residents want? Is this what the market research shows? Or is this what the big construction company thinks the area needs? In talking with people who work and live in the Troy (when I shop and visit Troy), they do want something (and I want more to visit) but something that draws community and beauty. I am not as involved as many and don't know all the details of what has developed to this point but after seeing how Saratoga has "progressed", I visit Troy frequently and don't want that to happen here. It lacks a pedestrian, community, inviting, functional feel. It has missed the mark for me and I feel most of the new construction in Saratoga is repellent. Turns me off completely. Troy, please hold out for better.

... said L on Apr 7, 2017 at 1:05 PM | link

I'd like to see the Redburn Development proposal, which was for a hotel. They have an impressive track record for such a young company.

... said Wilson on Apr 7, 2017 at 1:24 PM | link

So what happens with the American Theater space?

... said spencer on Apr 7, 2017 at 1:36 PM | link

I like the movie theater idea but couldn't they mix in some kind of restaurant/bar space on the roof or on the water side of the building?

... said JB on Apr 7, 2017 at 3:10 PM | link

I like the idea of a movie theatre in Troy but this design lacks imagination...(Saratoga ?) and it's out of scale to its surroundings.
Also what about The American Theatre location??

... said ken keenan on Apr 7, 2017 at 4:19 PM | link

As this project will be sited within the boundary of the Enchanted City, I will not be content until I am assured it will contain a suitable lair where I can plot my next campaign of irritation.

... said Doctor Irritation on Apr 7, 2017 at 7:16 PM | link

It is not the worst idea they have had for the site. The design can use some improving, but the reality is that the cost of having something that matches the existing street scape won't happen. Its over for this site. If they could pull off something like EMPAC (which has grown on me) that would be great.
I wish it was more of a Spectrum theater idea, but...
There will never be a 100% perfect idea for the site.

... said CAOD on Apr 8, 2017 at 6:50 AM | link

As Paul and others above have said, why not "use some of the river-facing side to put in one or two restaurant spaces, complete with patio?" Don't waste the riverfront property! Before or after seeing a movie, people would love to sit out on the river in warm weather and inside looking onto the river in cold weather. Faux retro architecture is not at all necessary—and could be atrocious—but good architecture is. Bonacio needs to hire a decent designer. As for the New York City comparisons, the city has had some great projects built over the fifteen years or so along the Westside downtown. Do they "match" the old buildings? Not at all, but many are interesting. Think Frank Gehry's building, for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/arts/design/22dill.html#addenda

Why not aim high instead of low? (Yes, "high" indeed costs more.) EMPAC, for example, is worth a trip from out-of-town to see and to experience a performance there. There is something cool going on in Troy now—with people in arts, technology, start ups, and small businesses mixing it up—and this project could either help or hurt that energy.

... said Peter on Apr 9, 2017 at 2:04 PM | link

This proposal has quite literally kept me up at night. I can't figure out how to stop it but I am so vehemently opposed to it. (Yes, I've written letters) As earlier posters said, I'd prefer the hole in the ground we currently have. It's absolutely absurd that anyone would agree to build something like this, blocking precious water front property in 2017 while staring at the decades worth of waterfront mistakes right in the face on a daily basis. PLEASE Troy, please wise up and reject the sale of this land and wait for something better. This is this wrong move.

... said b on Apr 12, 2017 at 4:53 PM | link

Closing off the river? Instead, how about using all of that "roof space" as a GREEN ROOF that would function as a park? Elevators on the sides of the Building as well as staircases. More expensive now but a meeting place and showpiece for Troy for years to come.

... said Brunswick Jim on Apr 12, 2017 at 11:47 PM | link

Is that the building, or the box the building comes in?

... said Herbert on Apr 20, 2017 at 7:49 AM | link